Zaid

Z.M.E lives together with his wife (R.) and his little daughter in a home  for asylum seekers in Norway. When I asked him if he and his wife would like to tell me about his experiences of migrating from one country to another, he was very open to do so, because – like he said – he wants the world to know, what people in Iraq were facing, so the two of them invited me to their little room one afternoon for tea… 

I: "Why did you leave your country and what made you choose Norway?"

Z.M.E.: "Because we faced a lot of things, a lot of dangerous things. Our situation, the most important situation. I`ve been threatend for killing and I`ve been kidnapped in Iraq. So this is the most dangerous thing and the most serious thing we have been through in Iraq. So, then, I've been kidnapped. My wife and my daughter ran away from Iraq and they directed to Norway because they heard about the human rights and the peace and hoped to live with peace in Norway. Because I don`t want my enemy to face what I faced in Iraq. The situation in of our land is worse, a lot of worse. The reason is, I didn´t want to cooperate with the armed people because I am Sunni. Because you know about Sunni and Shia in Iraq. So I refused to cooperate with them so they kidnapped me. After two months, I was set free and they took two houses from me, my house and my parents house, these houses I built them with my hands. After short time, about one month, I heard in the news that the armed people changed to work with the government now, so they called me and I made commision with them. I thought that they would do that peacefully with me. So I talked with them to return back to my house and to return it back but I didn`t know they were cheating me. I went to my original area, to my house, and reached the street, my street, so my neighbour saw me in the street. She was a woman and said to me 'Why did you come here?' I said 'I come to return to my house.' She said 'No, they are cheating you. They want to kill you in front of the door of your house.' She put me in her car and we ran away from there. I heard from her that they came the last day, the day back, they insist to come if I return to my house. I didn´t know. They told me to come and if I come home they return my house back. I didn`t know they want to kill me again. They asked for my new address and where I live. I heard about that and I lived for one month in my friends´ house, not going ouside for one month. Everything I ate my friend gave it to me. My friend is a dentist, too. His name is Mohammed. For one month I stayed in my friends´ house until I prepared my runaway and I came here. The plan was that my wife would wait in Norway until she gets the positive answer and then I would follow. But the last time was very dangerous. Even my wife didn`t know what..."

(Phone ringing. Z. answers the phone and excuses himself and leaves the room. I continue the interview with his wife.)

I.: Where did you go when he was kidnapped?

R.: "I go to my relatives. Then I meet my brother. I didn`t talk to my husband that time and I didn`t know where he was. But I know they let him out when I pay the money. They take just anyone for the money or the kill or for any reason."

I.: How did you plan to get to Norway and why did you choose Norway?

R.: "My brother planned it. We have relatives in Norway and they told us about Norway, it is very good life here, about the peace here and it is a good place to work and study. But what I saw in Norway was even better than what I heard about it. The way they care about my daughter and take care of the children. And the people are very peaceful and they respect you. Because in our country we don`t have this. Here they smile all the time on your face.

And it´s easy to go anywhere you want by T-Bane and train. This is very good.

I have many things to say but i can´t explain in English. 

I.: "Just try!"

R. (laughing): "You want to drink a tea? This is better."

(R. prepares some tea, then her husband comes back and we continue the interview.)

Z.M.E.: "So this is the headline of my story. It´s not so dangerous, isn`t it? Belive me, in Iraq they feel peacefully when they hear in the news that it was only 40 persons who were killed, not like 200 or something. We feel the difference like that.

When I was set free from kidnapping there was a very close frind of mine from highschool. We were three friends. Me and Ali and Mustafa. We used to to connect each other, we used to visit each other, we were very very very close friends. When I was set free, I talked to my brother on the phone about the old days (he sighs) and I remebered and I said to my brother 'I will call Ali now to know what is his news.' When I called him he didn`t answer. His sister answered me. So I said 'Hello.' She said 'Hello Z.M.E.' She knew it was me because my number was shown on the phone. So I said 'Where is Ali?' She said 'You didn`t know? Ali, he´s dead. One month now.He died in an explosion. Bomb in a car.' I said 'I can´t speak anymore. I´ll call you back.' I fell down. Until now, if I show you (he opens YahooMessenger and shows me his profile picture. The picture shows him and Ali.) Until now, I don´t believe he is dead.      

Every moment of my life I went with him. He was a close friend, a very close friend. He was`n t with me in the college, he was studying in another college, the College of Science. But we were friends from highschool. I have four kidnapped friends who were set free and the same number killed. One of them was with my wife in college. The American military shot him.

I.: Did you think about leaving before you were kidnapped?

Z.M.E.: "No. Me and my wife had planned our life exactly different from this. We had our house, I can show you some pictures of our house. We planned to continue with our job as a dentist in the centre of Baghdad. I worked in a medical centre. My wife worked in another medical centre. We used to go in the early morning. I used to take her to her place of work and then go to my place. The many accidents in our way, I am not going to mention it now, for now, you are going to drink some tea and have some cookies. After that I will tell you. Not just to you, but to the whole world. Because I think, that you will publish this in the internet, right? So (sighs) - to let them know what is the situation in Baghdad. So if you have any question..."

I: "Okay then. Tell me, when did you decide to leave?"

Z.M.E.: "Okay. Well.... When the armed people was taking me out, I said 'R.(the wife), the most important is the baby.' She was then about one year. The rest of the family, they left the area where we lived, because my father was a jugde and he was with the policy of Saddam Hussein. So our area was very dangerous for us, so they left the area. But we stayed there. Me and my wife and my kid.

So when I was set free, I knew, that she had left to Europe. My family told me, cause they

had contact to her. She had told them that she would go to Norway. And when she arrived, she called them. You know, the technology makes the world a small town. I talked to her on the phone and I knew where she was. She told me about the different 180 degree in her life. You know, we here don't know the continuous electricity. The electricity comes with one hour per day or per two days. We can not rely on anything with the electricity. We have to contribute to the general generator in the streets, but it's not enough for the heater or the air conditioning. And it's always been like that. Also before the war."

I: "So what did you think about Norway when you came here? And did you know anything about the country from before?"

Z.M.E: "I hear about the scandinavian countries in general, Sweden especially, but also Norway. Our relatives, the cousin of my wife, told us about Norway, how the life in Norway. He just told us good things about Norway, very good. I have Miss Nancy at my school (the teacher) and I told her that I had a strange feeling here in Norway. She asked me why and I told her: 'I am not used to get my rights. I don't know what the human rights are.' She said: 'You can just ask anyone and they will tell you, what your rights are.' So that's the most important thing. Even this small place here, it's like paradise for me."

I: "Tell me something about how you actually came to Norway!"

Z.M.E.: "Well, I... I don't know, what it's called in english, but it's an illegal way. I managed it with one of my patients. I done him many favourites and he wants to return it back to me. So when he hear about me and my situation, he called a man and he managed it. From Baghdad to Syria and then to Norway, it took me around seven days or something. I do not really remember. It was indeed very rough. My situation was very bad. Very, very bad. I used to take valium tablets and I put many tablets here in this box - there are many in here - and I used to take it all the way here. Just to calm down. You know even here, I can't sleep here in the night.  (points to the lower one of the two bunk beds, where he is supposed to sleep) You know something? I can't sleep here in the night, cause I can't sleep in closed spaces. Just because of what happened when I was kidnapped. You know, that time, my eyes was tied. They opened it one time in a day for half an hour. So anyway... Well, I used the valium tablets. But really, here in Norway I don't take a lot. Just a small one. But really, in the night, I sleep here, on the couch. I can't sleep in this bed. Anyway. When I came to Norway, I didn't feel it was strange. I don't feel I am far away from my parents. You know, I used to tell my wife 'I don't feel this 'We are in Norway, we are far away'', because you know, when we see it in the internet or in the map, it is so far from there, but when I arrived, I really liked the place. At home, we don't have no bus, no t-bane, no train... But the most beautiful and most important thing is the good management and the politics. Here, there is a structure of appointments. This is the most beautiful thing. Well, you know, I differ from other people. Before you just arrived, I was listening to music together with my wife and I like to structure in appointments, I like many beautiful things, that make the meaning of the life. I don't want to sleep whatever time it is. No! I like arrangements, I like structure."

I: "Can you say, that the Norwegian way of being fits better to you character than the Iraqi?"

Z.M.E.: "Yes. In Iraq, we have the social relations between the relatives and the friends. But now, there is no time anymore for visit each other, no time to walk in the streets. Anyone takes care of himself. The life ends in Baghdad at 6 pm. Everyone closes his house and stays inside. So there is no life, no social life. The social relationships are in the past, when we used to visit each other and invite each other. You know in Baghdad, every two minutes, we here boom! And then there is vibration. And then, there are many planes and helicopters and..."

I: "Would you like to live in Iraq if there would not be the war?"

Z.M.E.: "Certainly yes. Because everywhere, there is something bad and something good. We used to get in wars before the foreign government, but we didn't have a strong government. You know, the security is the most important thing of life. You you don't feel save in your house, in your street, you can't do anything, you can't think of anything. Here in Norway, for example, you can plan for one year, for the the next six months, in Iraq, we can't plan to the evening. Really, we can't plan anything. How can I continue my study, if I can't plan to the evening. This is the most important thing. The peace and the security. So when we had a government of Saddam Hussein, we had peace. There was nothing between the Shia, the Kurdish and the Arabic. All were even. What did we gain from the war? What did it give us? Terror, bombing, threating.... They told us 'This is the new Iraq'. But what is that? I swear, that every word, I told you, is right. And really. I discuss it with anybody, cause this is the real. Nowadays in the TV, we hear about safety in Iraq, but this is not real. They depend on the armed people working with the government now to fight 'Al-Qaida', because they are radicals, right? But it's not real. They are the same. These armed people, they ARE 'Al-Qaida'. Yes. They are 'Al-Qaida'. They make the war. Still now, I have the phone number of the person who called me. It is here. His name is .... . Believe me. He called me and said 'I am Sunni and you are Sunni, I help you, you can return to your house' and I was happy and I told my wife 'I will return to my house'. But she was afraid. She didn't trust them."

 R: "I was afraid, but I leave him happy. Then he go and he find out that they are cheating him."

I: "When you think about Iraq, do you feel hope or did you give up that country?"

Z.M.E.: "When I think about it, I first care about my rest family, my parents and my two brothers and my two sisters. My two brothers study law and my sisters are in high school. So the most important thing is to return the peace back to the country. Because I care about THEM. Everyone supports his or her country. I mean, don't you like Germany? When I talk to my friends, we talk about the past. We talk about Iraq, the beautiful past, not the bad one. I reached the degree, that my parents wanted me to leave the country. Just go out of Iraq. My family, my mother, they all collected money for my runaway. From my aunt, from my brother, they collected the money and gave it to me. So how can I refuse? If there would be someone who promise me that the Iraq is really the new Iraq, that the safety is not just a fake, then... Not for the next five years. Now, I don't have any house, I don't have any money, I don't have anything. I don't want to waste my time with going outside and coming back. Now, I want to go on. I want to study and qualify and to make a thing. The big dream of mine is to work with surgeries. This is a dream for me. Because... this is my life!"

I: "What do you think about the people here?"

Z.M.E.: "Smiling. Very smiling people. Yes. Because there is a rule in Islam. Our prophet Mohamad says 'smile on your brothers face'. This is a rule. This is important. It makes you feel comfortable. And here, the people are polite and smiling. So, I like the people and I like to meet the people working here.

Well, the first day, I came to Norway, I met a very nervous investigator in the police station. He was very nervous. He was not nice to me, but I forgot it."

I: "Can you tell me anything about the first days?"

Z.M.E.: "Well, I came to Oslo directly, but really, I don´t know from where to where, because I used to take the valium tablets. So when I woke up, the person who brought me from Syria to here told me 'wake up, we are in Oslo'. He brought me directly to the police station. Everyone was very polite then, in the reception, in the waiting room. Not the investigator (smiling), but everyone else. Well, the first night, they didn't investigate with me, so they postponed me to the other day. I called my wife and my brother in law and they came to take me. They were living in Oslo. So, the first night, I stayed there. Then, I went to the Tanum mottak. After that, we come here."

R: "Because I get the transfer to here. I was in another mottak. Far from Trondheim, two hours more. But then, we transfer to here. We came here to Oslo, because we want to open a praksis. Well, first, I want to know the system in the dental clinic here and learn many words, norwegian words. Sometimes, I already understand what they say to me."

Z.M.E.: "First, we need to continue learning the language. On the top, there is the language. There is one year course in the college. After that, there is a qualification exam, we must do it. After that, they give us a license and then, we can start to work. I already have a three and a half years experience from my country."

I: "What do you think is the biggest difference between Iraq and Norway?"

Z.M.E.: "Norway is a state, a country. Connected with Sweden, connected with Denmark, connected with Finlandia. It has a respected army, sergeants and a court. It is a country. Iraq now, it is not a country. It is connected with other neighbours with very bad relations. Now, Turkey is beating Iraq. Saudi Arabia. Jordan. Very bad relations with foreign affairs. Iraq has no army. That army that we see is some kind of military, that belong to parties. Many parties. We have 275 parties in Iraq. There is no country like that. Shia parties, sunni parties, kurdish parties, and they are fighting each other. So there is no country like that. It is no country. It is a war place. This is a big difference. And we have not yet talked about the services or the human rights. If we talk about the differences between Iraq and Norway, we have to write on a wall. We can not discuss it on a small paper."

I: "What about the culture?"

Z.M.E.: "The norwegian people are very educated. I've always found the people read books, in the t-bane. From the early morning, they are reading books, so they are very cultural."

Z.M.E.changes the topic and shows me some pictures of his friends from university and tells me their stories. The most of them had emigrated to other countries. Z.M.E was one of the few who had stayed in Iraq until he was forced to leave. He also shows me pictures of Iraq, his family, his houses and his families houses. We continue the conversation for some time, before I have to leave. He seems very excited  and thankful about the publishing of his story and he keeps on saying that it is important to him to let people know about the situation, Iraqi people are facing.

 Zaid ble intervjuet av Eva Ostertag våren 2008